There is a reason for all of this and that is that at the very bottom, the elite classes want to abolish Christianity--upon which the Western culture is based. The heritage of those of us from European countries is decidedly Christian. But the very height of that culture is the old Mass. Think of it. All of the most beautiful art, all of the glorious compositions of musical geniuses like Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Victoria, Palestrina were created for the use of the Church's worship. As my mentor used to say, "It is the Mass that matters." And so it is.
I am convinced that to resurrect the Western culture to its proper place the Mass must be brought back to the center of life. And it must be the old Mass which was the living tradition in the West from the time of the Apostles. It is not enough to have a Eucharistic liturgy. The Divine Liturgy will not function in the manner that is needed. No, it is a product--which is altogether magnificent and beautiful--of a different culture. The Latin Mass (even in liturgical English) is what formed our parents and ancestors. It is still the quiet and almost unknown heartbeat of our culture.
But it is the very answer to all of our social ills too. Economics? Absolutely! In the Mass one is united to the God-man. We are filled with wonder and moved by the sight of heaven. The world cannot defeat us nor injure us for we have been united with Life himself and death has been annihilated. Therefore we can face the economic woes not only with courage, but with confidence and joy. The Mass is in fact the answer to all of the plagues of human life, for it is the answer that Christ has given us to be joined to him and united in one Body.
I recall the words of Christ about putting new wine in old wineskins and causing the to burst. Very often I think this has been the experience of people who have become Orthodox. The "native" Orthodox certainly feels as thought the ground has been shifted under their feet and is no longer the same. Their world seems to have burst. The same is experienced by the convert as well. Their world bursts with the new wine poured into their lives. Friends forsake them, the rhythm of life is greatly altered with new liturgical cycles, and what once made intuitive sense in our culture no longer seems to fit as well. Things get forced in, square pegs are hammered into round holes.
I am always grieved when I see convert clergy begin acting as if there were Greek or Russian, especially when I can tell from their names that they are Scot, or Irish, or English, or German. The only way for them to make sense of this new world is to reject who they were before. They change their names, even if their previous name was a Saint's name, to show that change is complete. [I want to re-embrace my given name of Guy! I love my name, it's a treasured family name as well as being a Saint name. You'll notice that my blog has taken back my name again as I used it before seminary. And yes, I will absolutely answer to Fr. Guy or just Fr. Winfrey.]
I spoke with one woman today who has found the Eastern Rite too foreign. She loves the faith, but the liturgy and culture are just not hers. And why should she be forced to change what was not required even by the Apostles upon the Gentiles in the Book of Acts? This makes me believe quite strongly that if people are going to be brought into salvation here in this very Euro-centric land, it can only happen with the old Mass. Anything else will burst the wineskins and people will be lost and hurt.
As my mentor said, "It is the Mass that matters." And so it is. So… Introibo ad altare Dei (I will go unto the altar of God).
Absolutely wonderful post!! Thank you so much for posting.
ReplyDeleteI would like to add: what do the Byzantines think that they will accomplish by peopling their convert parishes, or individual converts for that matter, with self-loathing, culture hating, converts? I see a bad end to so much of this.
We Westerners must remain loyal to the old Mass of our ancestors...anything else is unacceptable.
In my experience, these sorts of discussions only mean something to the more cultured, intellectual sorts. For whatever reason, intellectual sorts have a higher understanding of beauty and its profound importance. The average man in America isn't going to identify at all with your post. I think the real dilemma here is not the issue of Rites within Orthodoxy, but how do we get those who have difficulty recognizing true beauty AT ALL into the Church. We have people raised up in a culture where the ugly is considered beautiful and vice versa. My father and mother find nothing beautiful about the traditions of East or West. They, for whatever reason, have never been sensitive to beauty. They don't grasp the splendour of Christ's Holy Church. And surely this isn't just my parents. I work with teenagers all day and very few of them have a sensitive disposition, a disposition that allows them to recognize true beauty. I think the most obvious contemporary example is the average persons dislike for classical music. Most people I know find it to be completely uninteresting and of little value. How can that be? How can one not find beauty in Mozart, Rachmaninoff, Part? How do we get these people into the Church?
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ReplyDeleteI just finished sharing my concern with a friend of mine. He shared my concern. I think he summed it up best when he said, "I think that's a deeper core problem that most others unfortunately. If you're in the midst of objective beauty and hate it, what better icon of hell is there?"
ReplyDeleteI do appreciate your thoughts, Father
Although I think that John has a good point, I do believe that it is misdirected. Firstly, even if a lacking of culture is evident, to which I agree, making converts adopt a totally foreign culture to join the Church is not only misdirected, it is heretical (Phyletism); if one is to connect people to culture, it must be within some type of culturally recognized framework...19th century Imperial Russia or the last gasp of Byzantium is not our cultural framework.
ReplyDeleteAs an example, even though it is difficult enough to keep the second and third generation of ethnics in the Church, how much more difficult is it to keep the first generation of converts? And we must admit that Byzantinism is the only denomination in which even those baptized in the Church, if of the wrong ethnic persuasion, are still considered "converts."
Secondly, I think that the days of the mass of a population belonging to the Church are over; even in the East. Often the reason that the Church is in such a difficult position is that it has really only been an ethnic or cultural identification, not a religious one. I think that the insistence upon a single Byzantine cultural experience has been very detrimental to true faith.
Another thought along the same lines.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the rediscovery of tradition and beauty within Roman Catholicism will have a far, far greater impact than a few, usually nutter, converts singing, usually very badly, 19th century Russian opera music in church completely devoid of congregational participation...
One reason, perhaps that the New Liturgical Movement within Roman Catholicism will have such a strong mass appeal is because it is still within an existing cultural tradition, albeit in retreat for the last fifty years, Byzantinism on the other hand will always remain foreign and the domain of a few converts with a self-loathing that is pathological more than anything else.
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ReplyDeleteDale, I don't mean to come across as disrespectful, but I find the tone of your posts to be unacceptable. First, they lack Christian charity. Maybe I am perceiving wrongly, but I feel like you have a lot of contempt towards those who adhere to "Byzantinism", as you call it. If you do indeed harbor ill will, it transgresses Our Lord's command to love our neighbor and to not judge. We have no right to call anyone self-loathing based upon our disagreement with the way they live out the Faith. Unless we know the heart and intention of each individual, we cannot make such a statement. I do not know why some people feel it necessary to adhere closely to a foreign culture, but love requires that I assume the best of intentions. And really, in my experience, most of those people do have genuinely good intentions.
ReplyDeleteOne issue that I have with Western Rite Orthodoxy is that it feels false to me. I have been to Western Rite liturgies in Orthodoxy and have always come away feeling like it was nothing but a reconstructionist religion. Priests reviving ancient Western traditions, whatever traditions suit their individual tastes. It often feels like Jews for Jesus or Wicca.
To go off of my previous posts, what if people find the Latin tradition just as foreign as the Byzantine or Slavic ones? And really, in my experience, Orthodoxy is much more diverse than Roman Catholicism. Orthodoxy is known for its diversity in its spiritual expression. Yes, the New Liturgical Movement is interesting, but again, in my experience, it all comes across as false. It doesn't feel authentic, it feels like a bunch of academics or eccentrics reviving pet liturgical practices, vestments, etc.
I don't know, Dale. I understand what you are saying, and really, I don't think we disagree as much as one might think reading these posts, but I do think that both sides need to be a little less rigid and fanatical in approaching this and a little more loving and understanding.
John
Please forgive me if I was out of line. Please believe that I post here with the best of intentions. I find this discussion to be interesting, but also very important. I hope the dialogue will continue to be meaningful.
ReplyDeleteJohn, I've taken no offense at All. I'm just away from my computer for a few days more. It's not to easy type in a meaningful comment or a new post from my iPhone! I should have some thoughts and comment soon. Until then, keep up the conversation.
ReplyDeleteJohn, I have spent many, many years seeing Self-loathing converts in Byzantium, and trust me, there is no other term for such people, and just watching them run around pretending to worship with a tradition that has no connection to them whatsoever is truly sad...so let's be honest about what comes across as false.
ReplyDeleteThe western rite in the Byzantine Church comes under daily attack and yet you presume to teach me? I do not think that the nastiness and hatred directed against any tradition other than Byzantine that is so evident in much of Byzantine Orthodoxy (especially from converts attacking their own heritage, which they call "baggage") is not expressive of people with "genuinely good intentions."
Having said the above, I do not think that the western tradition, or any tradition other than Byzantine will ever be acceptable in Byzantium; this includes even the ancient traditions of Oriental Orthodoxy as well, because of the stain of Phyletism.
I think that only amongst the Byzantines can cultural imperialism be construed as diversity! I think that this is partly the fault of a religion that for so long simply was used as firstly a department of an imperial state, and later as an ethnic unifying force. It is interesting to compare Byzantine Orthodoxy to Oriental Orthodoxy, which has no such fixation on a single cultural expression, and I think that the main difference is indeed this lack of an imperial cultural tradition.
On another note, comparing a western rite in Orthodoxy to Wiccan, revived paganism...well it rather says it all does it not?
ReplyDeleteGee...just after you advise me not to judge those who reject their own traditions and become Greeks (or the Russian equivalent). I do hope that you can see the hypocrisy so evident in your post!
Dale, please forgive me for any offense I have caused. I clearly did not articulate my views well, as they have left you offended. It was not my intention to offend, nevertheless, I did just that.
ReplyDeleteSince this conversation has degenerated into something that I don't wish to pursue, I will bow out now.
In Christ who is Lord of East and West,
John
In reviewing the previous posts, may I suggest applying the words of the Apostle Paul: "Let those who wish to do a thing, let them do it for the Lord; and let those who do not wish to do a thing, let them also do it for the Lord."
ReplyDeleteFor my part, I have been in a Russian Catholic church for the last score or so of years, because I was (and am) being spiritually fed there. While I have great appreciation for the spiritual treasures of the East (including the Greek Church Fathers, the Divine Liturgy, the Hours, and the Slav and Greek liturgical musical tradition), for some reason I have never found it necessary nor appropriate to bad-mouth the spiritual treasures of the West (which include but most certainly are not limited to the Latin Church Fathers, the Gregorian Liturgy and Hours, and the treasures of Gregorian Chant, sacred polyphony, and the modern authentic musical folk traditions (e.g., Italian, French, Spanish, Latin American, and English)
I commend the efforts of those such as Fr. Guy who are trying to preserve spiritual treasures out of the shipwreck which we so laughingly call the twentieth century. May his efforts, and those of others in East and West, continue. We will likely not survive without them.